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DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

DMM7510 7½-Digit Graphical Sampling Multimeter
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brian.d.smith
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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by brian.d.smith » May 11th, 2017, 11:38 am

Just to clarify, you are running a test with Kickstart and while the Kickstart test is running, you are bringing up the internal web page of the DMM7510?

brian.d.smith
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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by brian.d.smith » May 11th, 2017, 2:46 pm

I have it working.

Kickstart 1.9.5

DMM7510 firmware 1.6.3d

Start Kickstart first. Set up new test, discover instrument, configure test.

Start internal web page via Internet Explorer.

Run Kickstart Test. Look at Sheet tab. Results are spooling to the spreadsheet.

Look at web page. Virtual front panel is changing readings but only occasionally. Not real time.

Press buttons on DMM7510. Buttons respond as they should .

Kickstart finishes its run. All test results are saved to spreadsheet.

dr.diesel
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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by dr.diesel » May 11th, 2017, 2:54 pm

Hi Brian,

Leave it running overnight and see what happens, I've done this several times and it will eventually stop responding until the instrument is rebooted. (Note, prior to 1.6.3d the touch screen would stop responding, now it seems just the web interface crashes, instrument still responds, but no web interface till a reboot)

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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by Klaas Klaastra » May 11th, 2017, 11:09 pm

@dr Diesel
That the UI is still working is NOT true. The whole machine is frozen and only a power cycle can solve it. See the video in the link.

@Brian
I summarized what I did yesterday, please read it careful. I didn't start kickstart first, just went to the website in order to make a screenshot of a running measurement.

But in the past, kickstart had the same problems so I try to avoid it and start using the internal website.

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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by brian.d.smith » May 12th, 2017, 6:54 am

Have a look at MENU-> COMMUNICATION->TCP/IP MODE

Are you using Manual or Automatic?

I have found on my laptop, that in Automatic mode, the DMM7510 often changes the IP address. This causes the web page to stop working. I have switched to using Manual Mode.

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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by dr.diesel » May 12th, 2017, 7:00 am

In my case the IP is assigned by MAC, the IP never changes.

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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by brian.d.smith » May 12th, 2017, 7:56 am

I demonstrate many different Keithley boxes to customers regularly. My experience is that making the box have a static IP address is the most satisfactory configuration.

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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by Klaas Klaastra » May 12th, 2017, 9:29 am

Manually, all my instruments are manually assigned.
I use my own Bind so that I can use names instead of IP's.

Those users without an UI on the device, do they never have problems?

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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by dr.diesel » May 12th, 2017, 2:34 pm

brian.d.smith wrote:
May 12th, 2017, 7:56 am
I demonstrate many different Keithley boxes to customers regularly. My experience is that making the box have a static IP address is the most satisfactory configuration.
If it was simply an IP change one should be able to just navigate to the web interface on the new IP and continue on. But like I mentioned above, when it crashes the web interface is simply broken until instrument reboot.

Though I will change to a static IP just to help further debug the issue. (I'm out of the lab all next week)

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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by Klaas Klaastra » May 12th, 2017, 11:09 pm

Are we talking about different problems here?

I have the feeling that at the porting of the OS something went wrong for the dialog "local" at the touch screen models. Our 2281S always shows a softkey with "local" which works fine. For the DMM7510, I guess, that sometimes the "local" dialog is somehow not shown on screen (race condition perhaps) but the unit is in remote mode. The user is not able to get back control because that dialog isn't shown and is also not in focus for keystrokes.

Maybe the same with the blue screens, that the keystrokes are routed to a NULL object which should be the "local" dialog.

Anyhow, that local/remote switching of the DMM7510 sucks.

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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by brian.d.smith » May 13th, 2017, 5:50 am

Klaas Klaastra wrote:
May 12th, 2017, 11:09 pm
Are we talking about different problems here?

I have the feeling that at the porting of the OS something went wrong for the dialog "local" at the touch screen models. Our 2281S always shows a softkey with "local" which works fine. For the DMM7510, I guess, that sometimes the "local" dialog is somehow not shown on screen (race condition perhaps) but the unit is in remote mode. The user is not able to get back control because that dialog isn't shown and is also not in focus for keystrokes.

Maybe the same with the blue screens, that the keystrokes are routed to a NULL object which should be the "local" dialog.

Anyhow, that local/remote switching of the DMM7510 sucks.
Have you tried pressing the TRIGGER button? After that, try pressing the trigger button and holding it for two or more seconds.

I launched the internal web page on Friday with manual static IP address. The PC portion is running and showing regular updates and the DMM7510 responds to button presses.

I will let this run for 3 days, until Monday, and post the results.

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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by Klaas Klaastra » May 13th, 2017, 6:22 am

I don't think that this is a long term stability problem. If you have this problem you will notice it right away.

brian.d.smith
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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by brian.d.smith » May 13th, 2017, 7:24 am

No problems so far.

In addition to the static IP address, I recommend that you find a clean install of Windows with no installation of other VISA etc, and install the Keithley I/O layer.

My guess is that you have a Windows problem and/or an I/O layer problem. The locking up of the DMM7510 is a separate issue. If I can replicate any way to lock up the DMM7510, I will report the problem formally inside of Keithley and the problem will be fixed.

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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by Klaas Klaastra » May 13th, 2017, 11:48 pm

I don't think that it is a windows problem at all.

As I already mentioned above, if it works, it works for hours. But if it fails, it fails right away. I think (almost sure) that the OS inside those units are unstable with remote connections. Those units have a history with problematic remote connections and it is not solved. The problem is that it is not easy reproducible and it always pops up if I need a quick snapshot of a running measurement. It's Murphy law, and always when I captured a difficult event, very frustrating.

The fact that it is not easy to reproduce gives me the feeling that this issue will not be resolved. I already have the agreement with Farnell that I can return the unit if I think that this is not workable.

brian.d.smith
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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by brian.d.smith » May 14th, 2017, 12:15 pm

Can you run Wireshark to find out what series of commands are causing your DMM7510 to lock up?

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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by Klaas Klaastra » May 14th, 2017, 10:57 pm

Sure, if it was easy reproducible. But it isn't.

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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by dr.diesel » May 15th, 2017, 9:51 am

Found my unit locked up this morning when I briefly hit the lab to set a static IP and further test. The screen was dimmed, brightened up when touched but no other button would function, power cycle was required.

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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by dr.diesel » May 15th, 2017, 11:40 am

Just caused the web interface lock up by clearing the Graph data buffer, then pressing the home button, this is with the static IP like I mentioned above. (note, this was done via the web interface)

Closing the web browser, reopening, different PC, nothing, instrument reboot is the only fix.

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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by brian.d.smith » May 16th, 2017, 7:17 am

dr.diesel wrote:
May 15th, 2017, 11:40 am
Just caused the web interface lock up by clearing the Graph data buffer, then pressing the home button, this is with the static IP like I mentioned above. (note, this was done via the web interface)

Closing the web browser, reopening, different PC, nothing, instrument reboot is the only fix.
Can you install Wireshark and capture the communication sequence that leads to the lockup?

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Re: DMM7510, SMU 2450 & 2460 problems

Post by niner_007 » May 18th, 2018, 12:53 am

Vince W wrote:
December 14th, 2016, 9:39 am
Hi Dr.,

I am waiting on an analysis from our engineering team in regard to performance/autozero; not sure it's a bug unless I missed something. In the meantime, I'll suggest some ways to reduce noise (flicker was mentioned). Autozero is designed to reset drift from the 0.000 reference, but it comes at a time expense. To reduce noise levels, you can increase NPLC, turn on Line Sync -both under Menu->Settings (under Measure)- and use a moving average filter -see Menu->Calculations (under Measure)->Filter.

Vince
Hi Vince, Brian, any news from the engineering team?

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